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Goodbye
Oct 14, 2013 2:06:03 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 2:06:03 GMT -8
I sent this message to Calli in a PM, but i think you might wanna know why I'm leaving the group, so im gonna just copy/paste it to here too.
I was thinking about this a little more. I would like to believe that Alek and Thomas played their chars properly/true to the personality of the chars. If that's true, than they are going to cause a shitton of problems to the others too, since as far as i know, Yscar did nothing against them, and they wanted to abuse the wizard's gold at first when Ghrym said the ridicious 15 gold price/day, then they wanted to change a previous deal which was a win-win for both parties at that time. Then ghrym decides to just say to Yscar casually that it is true that he said in the past that he dont have to pay for the room anymore, but since he refused to identify the new items freely, this previous deal is changed again, and right now yscar owes him 6 days of gold. Frankly, doest matter what charachter I play, he/she wouldnt tolerate this kind of behaviour. You asked me to be more cooperative, and guide yscar towards the party. Right now, I dont think this is possible, not just for yscar, for any char I would create. Because of this I think thats it for me. I said earlier that I like to play with u guys, and this isnt changed. I just cant fulfill your reequest as a DM to cooperate with such personalities whatever char I play. So yea, I would like to thank you for the hard work you did to make the campaign as good as possible, and thanks for the opportunity for letting me play even tho my english suxx^^ I hope you guys have a better time w/o me during these sessions, althought as I said Ghrym and Darius will probably try to fuck up the other chars too, so maybe you want to talk with them, cuz this is not really an act of a "good alignment" character imo.
Again, thanks for everything, and I wish you good luck.
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Goodbye
Oct 14, 2013 2:35:09 GMT -8
Post by Elian Dresdon on Oct 14, 2013 2:35:09 GMT -8
bummer man.. Well I am still on skype if you ever wanna talk about things
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Goodbye
Oct 14, 2013 3:11:12 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 3:11:12 GMT -8
I'm not running away m8, I will keep lurking on this forum for the next 2 weeks or so, to give everybody a chance to talk with me if they wanna I'm actually very interested OOC, since there is no IC anymore ^^ why ghrym and darius acted with yscar as they did. I don't know if changing previous deals is in their chars' nature or they just hate wizards for something in their background, cuz as i said, I did nothing wrong against them as far as I know. The only guy who should/could be mad at yscar is elian, cuz even tho I said my reasons to him why I set farkas on fire, he is still a cleric, and probably have a hard time to justify such methods even If yscar did What he did in order to save the barb's life. It's not a secret im very new to DnD, and maybe this is a normal behaviour for a mature satyr. In this case tho I dont understand why Calli let him to play a satyr tho, cuz he is clearly gonna cause problems.
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Farkas
Newbie
Farkas
I always prepare some sammiches before I get kidnapped.
Posts: 9
Bonus XP: 200 xp
Likes: 3
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Post by Farkas on Oct 14, 2013 12:33:16 GMT -8
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Goodbye
Oct 17, 2013 15:20:28 GMT -8
Post by Ghrym Scheetghed on Oct 17, 2013 15:20:28 GMT -8
First off, I would like to admit that I was upset personally at the whole situation. Player should have asked for more clarification on what was being arranged from the beginning. What got me upset (and the character would be as well) was that it seemed that Yscar was changing and going back on his bargain. The little wordplay designed to manipulate and extort could have been approached in a better way.
So let's go into In character for a moment. 1. Yscar refused hospitality at the beginning stating that he didn't want to stay there. 2. Yscar wanted to charge for identifying items from the beginning. 3. Deals between other characters for staying there should be between each other. 4. The wanting to charge again for identifying was seen as a break in the previous negotiation and such was pointing out that if /if/ there was a new deal being brokered then the previous one was null and void. So that being said, all prior parts of the previous deal were then being revoked. (This being the part of the rent) 5. The deal at the first was thought to be: For access to the spellbook and staying without payment of the room: Yscar would identify items as long as the spell components were provided. 6. Yscar trying to get /all/ spell components being supplied to him was completely unreasonable. Since this would include any spell components that Yscar could ever need to cast any and all spells. And such would not be a very good deal for Ghrym /and/ Elian. 7. The reformulation of the staying in the room in exchange for identifying things( and access to the spellbook) providing that the material component for the identifying spell was supplied. Was exactly what I thought the deal was in the first place. 8. If Yscar had said /for these items/ for the previous set then it was not heard, otherwise there would not have been any forgoing of the daily room rental.
Let's step back for a moment and look at party group. Ghrym has been trying, sure crazilly, to try to help cement the party together with common goals and deals. Elian and Ghrym: Set up house, base of operations. Business partners in trying to get an 'Adventures Guild' going. Elian: has good relations with the people of the town. Ghrym: has good money sense, borderline miserly. Farkas: has helped out around the house, and went hunting: Benefit to the Town and good reputation for our group. Firamasah: has contact with native elves and has offered to help, even if it is until the deal with the Elves are done, probably will lead on to a bigger quest though. Darius: has helped Ghrym and ultimately was responsible for his recent 'abduction' to relearn what it is to be Fey. Darius: also has a verbal contract with Ghrym.
Yscar: Been aloof and distant from everybody.
Party Roles: Elian: Healer - Divine Connection Farkas: Tank and Major Damage Ghrym: Melee DPS - Tracking, back up Healer Darius: Melee Magic Firamsah: Ranged -Scouting Yscar: Ranged Magic - Identifying/Understanding of Magic
This is a well balanced party.
Ghrym and Elian have sacrificed much to get this all started. Ghrym (who had the idea on buying keys) 'Donated to the Town' enough supplies and food to broker a very nice deal for Everyone.
Personally I would enjoy and appreciate Yscar staying. All parties have hic-ups and don't always mesh well at first. It's working through those that bring them together and form a brotherhood. I'm not sure about Yscar and his motivations about adventuring and being part of the group, for the group.
I have noticed many people, characters, go through rapid changes to help cement this party together. Rapid growth of character and the understanding that there is a much better survival rate if you work together. Strength in numbers. Putting a 'new person' in will have again almost the same wary nature and will, in my understanding, restart the internal conflicts anew.
My apologies for not taking a time out to rationally resolve this conflict. Internal party conflict should be kept to a minimum. It relieves stress on us all, and the GM. We are just now getting out into the lands and doing 'Adventuring'.
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Goodbye
Oct 17, 2013 18:05:24 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 18:05:24 GMT -8
Okay, lets start with those points, and why yscar did what he did. I as a player dont really understand why i have to explain/justify every single step of yscars doing... but whatever. It's not like yscar has an imaginary ghost friend, who orders him around, so the players have no clue why he acts like that. I do believe that everything he did so far in this campaign was very racional and reallike, if we dont count a couple mistakes on my behalf, which made him look rude when he left ur house the first time, and made him look greedy when he said a counteroffer during the 2nd ID deal.
1,He refused the hospitality yes. Why would he want to be in ur house, when he has already a room in the inn? Why would he wanna be in a house with ppl who nearly killed him? Ghrym and firamasah wanted to kill each others and that fight nearly killed the whole party(including him), also during that fight firamasah aimed towards yscar and was ready to shoot, so yscar knocked him out with a spell. You guys at that point showd to yscar, that even if there is no "enemy", the "party" is still capable of jeopardizing yscar's life. Yscar was kidnapped from his room, by whoknowswhat, after these he is not gonna trust you easily. And even w/o these events, yscar is not trust anyone easily.
2, I still dont understand why is it a surprise that yscar "wants to make a deal". Yscar and the "party" are still strangers to each others. Even u said in the post that he is distant from everybody. Would u work for a stranger 12 hours a day just because he asked nicely? Also yscar is a rich and egoistic noble. Have u ever heard that a noble doing any kind of "work" for a citizen? Before he came to this place, gold was literally nothing in his eyes. He ventured out from his house with 100 gold, but before reaching the boat, he gambled the 93 away(because i rolled 7 with the 3d6). He is still just starting to realize that he is indeed need to do something, to get gold, to get the "normal" comfort what he used to have in his whole life from the first second he opened his eyes.
If I want to be really honest here, at the first deal u offered a spellbook, which is a very needed thing for yscar. Before your offer, he offered charging 50 gold for an ID. That was a bad RP from me. Not the gold amount was bad, the simple idea of working for anyone, aspecially for meaningless gold.
The 2nd time we were talking about gold, which is as i said, still not really a "thing" for him. A stranger asking a noble to work for him is a very wierd thing imo. The single fact that he is even considering to ID for u ghrym should have been taken as cooperation. But doing it for free? eh.
4, The first deal was that u give access of the spellbook to yscar, in change of him IDing that couple items. There was nothing else. Later yscar wanted to pay u for the 3rd day, then ghrym said he dont have to pay anymore. U did say that "because yscar helped u, u are gonna help him too, so he dont have to pay", meaning since he IDd(past tense) stuff for you, you are thanking him by not charging him anymore. Yscar/I thought the reason is that first of all, u dont need gold, cuz u r rich. Yscar IDd u items worth of 50k gold or sg, and u also just bought the ancient coins from the whole party with your money. You do own a building right now here, and actively building new ones around the house. You clearly dont need that little 15 gold/day from him, which is actually not a fair price for the room, which is just barely better then the inn's room, but not 8 times better... I think the 2 bed big room was 2 gold for a day in the inn.
5, The first deal was not a longterm thing, im 100% sure Yscar never agreed to such thing. It was a spellbook access for that 6 Ids. Thats it.
From yscar's perspective, ghrym and darius wanted to break the previous, already done deal, and wanted to force him to ID things again for free.
6, That was my fault as a player new to dnd. When Yscar offered that deal, I thought it is a fair deal. So far the mat costs were 50-100g. I didnt read any high level spells yet, and had/have no idea about those mat costs. Getting 50-100g mats for ID ing seems actually more beneficial to u ghrym, then to yscar, considering the only other option to ID stuff is Qui atm, who charges for 10%(which I as a aplyer considered to be a normal/average price in this world, or slightly higher, since Qui knows it too that there arent too many ppl here whom are capable of IDing stuff), which is a hell of a lot more then the 50-100g mats. Again, that was my fault.
I dont understand why is it relevant to this whole thing what the players did in their "free time". When the eartquake happened, yscar did go to random ppl, trying to help/heal them. He is not a saint tho, just because there was an earthquake in a little town he is not going to spend all of his time to help the ppl, where he got kidnapped, and nearly killed in a crypt. Based on what he knows about this(which is nearly nothing), it could have been some kind of experimenting from Qui-Hall which ended him there, or they actually wanted him to just not be concious while they are doing something, and didnt want to have the risk of him realizing what is going on, so they made him timetravel. There are a lot of possibilities at this point of the game. Yscar cant even rule out that maybe 1 of the players have something to do with his kidnapping.
Also dont forget the fact that when yscar realized he has no home anymore in the inn, then he talked with elian, then with ghrym. Yscar wanted a room and nothing else. Ghrym offered him a room if he agrees to go out on adventures with him, help him etc etc. Basicly he offered a fulltime "job" w/o paying him anything for a single room. This was highly disrespectfull in yscar's eyes.
Yea.. about those rapid changes. Can some1 explain to me why ghrym and fira are acting so friendly, after they wanted to kill each others, well fira wanted ghrym dead more precisly? This doesnt seem to be racional at all.
I asked farkas the player btw, and he said that, farkas the barbarian said to ghrym that "the only reason why he accepted his room was, because it was free. If it wouldnt be free, he would have just sleep on the street or something."
I also talked with Alek about this a few days ago. He said that what happened there was "not really his char's doing", it was him, being mad that yscar dont do it for free. He said that in the previous games he played in different campaigns the wizard always IDd the items free of charge. After I told him my view, he said he understands it, and it is entirely racional. Based on that chat, he never-ever thought that yscar agreed to anything like that he is going to ID items freely from now on, it was more about some kind of "expectation as a player" since we are in a "party".
Calli said something on skype, sorry i dont remember what that was exactly, but it sounded like she was a little bit angry cuz u guys wanted to change the prev deal.
"8. If Yscar had said /for these items/ for the previous set then it was not heard, otherwise there would not have been any forgoing of the daily room rental."
Yscar never said that "for these items", because I think we never even talked about a longterm thing. It was always from the first sec that u knocked on my door, to ID these stuff, for the spellbook access. Not Id from now on.
I just asked Alek on skype, if he/darius ever thought about the first deal as Yscar agreed to ID your items from noew on, and not just the 6 said items on the table. He said no. He said "He/Darius was just angry, and broke. The two combined." I asked him again to make sure, that we arent misunderstanding each others:
[3:34:08] Omenpapa - Yscar: cuz ghrym said that he thought that yscar/I want to basicly change our deal which makes no sense. [3:34:20] Omenpapa - Yscar: to me at least. [3:34:46] Omenpapa - Yscar: okay [3:34:50] Alek - Darius: I have now idea what he was thinking, honestly.
It seems to me that only you thomas thought that the deal between darius,ghrym and yscar was a longterm one.
I know, I said this same thing a little differently like 5 times in this post, but based on ur post yscar was the evildoer, who wanted to change the old deal, and in reality, it was ghrym and darius.
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Goodbye
Oct 17, 2013 19:46:44 GMT -8
Post by Elian Dresdon on Oct 17, 2013 19:46:44 GMT -8
booooooooooooooo
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Goodbye
Oct 18, 2013 3:38:57 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 3:38:57 GMT -8
I would like to give u guys an advice If I may. Everybody here needs to understand that we were playing together. This is in theory for having fun. I never asked how old are the players/DM but hopefully we are all matures here. What I mean is by now everybody should have some kind of self control. We are not kids anymore. You as a player should never ever be mad for anything what happens with ur char, or during a DnD session. I personally wouldnt be mad at anybody, if u guys would decide for whatever reason to just cut off yscar's hands. Why? Because I understand that it is a game, and those hands are not mine. Obviously yscar wouldnt like it and would take the necesseary steps in order for a revenge.
It seems like you guys, Thomas and Alek got angry as a player during the last session. Thomas u were angry cuz u misunderstood something in the past(our first ID deal), Alek, u were angry because you just didnt understand why would the "party wizard charge anybody" for IDing items.
I think both of you should take a deep breath and think about the events and also if your are able to play dnd with others w/o being angry.
In the past I was a serious raider, mage class leader in a world class/ EU first guild in an mmorpg. I always said to the raiders that if u r having troubles IRL, or just tired or have any kind of problems then u should, if u want, talk about it with me, or with the other leaders. But if u dont have the proper/necesseary/needed calm mindset to do your job in a raid, then it's better if u just dont come on that day. If u r having attitude/emotional issues then you are going to ruin the whole progress for the guild, which is not acceptable. Also you are gonna get kicked from the guild instantly for ruining even 1 progress day like that. I never had to say this last sentence to anybody in the guild, but I dont know u guys, if u ever raided in an mmorpg seriously, so this was more about informing u how things work there.
This is a similiar concept for the DnD nights too imo. If u for whatever reason dont feel good, just say that u cant make it. No1 forces u to show up, but if u show up and get angry, u r gonna ruin everybody else's fun. Hopefully you dont want anything like that.
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Goodbye
Oct 19, 2013 0:00:24 GMT -8
Post by Elian Dresdon on Oct 19, 2013 0:00:24 GMT -8
Let's all just wait until Calli gets better and is able to mediate this situation.
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Goodbye
Oct 19, 2013 14:37:18 GMT -8
Post by Ghrym Scheetghed on Oct 19, 2013 14:37:18 GMT -8
If Ghrym was unclear, which he might have been because he's crazy, then that is IC miscommunication. I am not used to divulging IC actions with OOC conversation, I find that too much metagaming goes on, however I'm now under the impression that I was in error about not going over it. 'Continue to help out' in Ghryms' eyes was doing the same deal with identification of items when we pay/have the material components, in exchange you wouldn't have to pay the outlandish daily gold rent. This gives a reason for Yscar to help out doing what he can do, at no other expense than just his time once and a while. There was no conversation about needing special ink (which was GM'd in being around) There was a first offer to work as an adventurer for your room, but that was refused. Firamasah and Ghrym settled their differences (hopfully, at least Ghrym has thought so) because Ghrym apologized for insulting accidently his ancestors.
It seems alot of the IC conflict was started because of some OOC miscommunications or misunderstandings.
And before the discovery of the Warehouse, despite all appearances Ghrym and Elian were pretty broke thus the needing to have some sort of supporting funds come in. We didn't even have enough to fix the roof.
Party loot in MMO's usually goes to who can best use it. Right now there hasn't been any real 'raids' for any 'party loot' The sharing of the donation to the town to better the whole group was the best way for everybody to improve quickly and still get a (mostly) equal share in its benefit, unless of course people don't like being level 4.
Ghrym was upset, but he thought that the previous deal was being broken. Yscar didn't think there was a previous deal for 'continued help' not understanding the Satyr. Both are right and both are wrong. Getting upset personally on my part did not help the situation at all. So since there was no previous deal then there was no reason for you to stay without paying the daily rent and then tried to make a different deal back to where the previous deal was not made. (day of the first IDing)
Ghrym can understand it was a miscommunication and can admit that, but Yscar is not completely innocent in this either. Talking about it calmly would help, and OOC comments about IC threats of destroying property does not help.
Ghrym is not mad, just confused.
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Farkas
Newbie
Farkas
I always prepare some sammiches before I get kidnapped.
Posts: 9
Bonus XP: 200 xp
Likes: 3
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Post by Farkas on Oct 20, 2013 15:25:36 GMT -8
Can't we just agree that it was one silly misunderstanding without fleshing it out more? Let me rp this for you.
P1: "I believe that you good sir and me dragged this silly mishap far too long. How about we tip our funny hats and forget this ever happened?" P2: "My dear chap, your reckon honest and true and say, no matter how dandy for both of us, I feel embarrassed having this last for many days." Then the two gentlemen tipped their silly-hats and took seat next to the other ladies and gents. Forgetting the event ever happened the curtains slowly roll down, suddenly stuck midway. Staring at the audience, you notice the most enthusiastic person having the most confused slow-clap ever, mixed with a chorus of snoring somewhere in the background.
The end.
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Goodbye
Oct 21, 2013 1:37:57 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 1:37:57 GMT -8
Wow! Can ppl actually do that? But... it is soo simple...and brilliant. Why dont everybody does that? Do u have any kind of problems in your life? Just forget It! It's all good! Man, this is some seriously fantastic idea. We can even solve world hunger with this! R u hungry? No problem, just Forget it! Someone who has awesome ideas like this..shoud be rich and famous already! What's wrong with u to not publish such an astonishing idea? After that, u wouldn't need to work a single day of your life! You could even have a very own religion! People would worship u! I know i would! And in case something goes wrong with this theory... u know what to do... Juuuust forget it! =)
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Farkas
Newbie
Farkas
I always prepare some sammiches before I get kidnapped.
Posts: 9
Bonus XP: 200 xp
Likes: 3
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Goodbye
Oct 21, 2013 1:48:32 GMT -8
Post by Farkas on Oct 21, 2013 1:48:32 GMT -8
You're stupid, take your medicine.
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Goodbye
Oct 21, 2013 12:39:47 GMT -8
Post by Calli on Oct 21, 2013 12:39:47 GMT -8
After going through a week of pain and then ending that week with a couple blood clots in my legs and being in the hospital for 3 days, I am finally home and have gotten a chance to look at this thread.
Based on this thread only, which I am only going to use in my decision process as to reduce confusion and problems with mis-communication, I have decided the follow course of action will be taken:
Thomas & Omen - Please make new characters. They can be level 4 characters. They MUST BE a base race and a base class. Both Ghrym and Yscar will be turned over to the GM (me) to be removed from the game or used in the future.
Omen - With your new character, where you are new to D&D, I would recommend staying away from being a Wizard or Sorcerer/ess. The Wizard and Sorcerer classes are among the hardest classes to play, even with past experience in MMORPGs as magic users. As a new player to D&D, I recommend using a class that is not as difficult. Again, this is ONLY a recommendation, not a requirement.
IF THERE ARE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THIS VERDICT, THEN AS PLAYERS, YOU ARE FREE TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO LEAVE THE CAMPAIGN.
AS OF RIGHT NOW, OCTOBER 21ST 2013 @ 1337 PST (1:37pm), THIS TOPIC IS MUTE. Individual opinions have been delivered, concerns have be expressed and information has gotten out. I only want to move on from this expeditiously.
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Goodbye
Oct 21, 2013 17:53:13 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 17:53:13 GMT -8
Thank you for everything, as I said in the op, I'm leaving the campaign. Good luck to you all and have fun
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Goodbye
Oct 21, 2013 18:25:23 GMT -8
Post by Calli on Oct 21, 2013 18:25:23 GMT -8
Alright then. Good luck to you too and have fun. I am sorry it didn't work out.
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